I have an odd question

This may seem odd or goofy, but I wondered if I went back in my time machine, and could see the Dutch fleet at sea in 1652 or 1653, how would I tell which ships were present? Much later, it was the custom in the British and American navies to put the name of the ship on the stern, but did not think, from the van de Velde drawing evidence, that this practice was common in the Dutch navy during the First Anglo-Dutch War. Of course, the Reinier Nooms painting of Tromp's flagship Aemilia at the Battle of the Downs does show the name on the stern. Presumably, the flags flown might be useful, as well as position in the squadron, but that would not be enough to make the identification. The other possibility, which might be useful, in many cases, is to see the taffrail or upper stern, and see the painting or carving that is there.

The Friesland jacht Waterhond

We know that there was a 16-gun jacht in the service of the Admiralty of Friesland in 1653. The ship is listed in the list of ships in service in March 1653 an appendix to Vol.I of J. C. De Jonge's book Geschiedenis van het Nederlandsche Zeewezen. This ship is the jacht Waterhond, and Ron van Maanen has the details in his list "Dutch Warships 1600-1800". Carl Stepel has found that the Waterhond was hired in Amsterdam on 22 September 1652 "from nobody less then David de Wildt secretary of the Admirality of Amsterdam for a rent of Hfl. 1.250, per month". The captain's name is mentioned in The First Dutch War, Vol.V: These are the details:

The jacht Waterhond, Capt. Oosteroon

Length from stem to sternpost:  100ft
Beam:                            24ft
Hold:                            11ft
Height over hold:                 5-1/2ft
16 guns

Crew: 60 men

The Witte Eenhoorn

The ship Witte Eenhoorn (or Hoorn, or Eenhoorn) was apparently a ship we knew about, of the standard Noorderkwartier dimensions for 120ft ships: 120ft x 27ft x 11ft. Ron van Maanen says that the ship was in service from 1636 until 1672. One new piece of information is that the height over hold was 6-1/2ft. Ron van Maanen does not list it, but we know the armament in July 1654 from the Staet van Oorlog te Water for 1654:

32 guns:
 6-iron 12pdr
20-iron  8pdr
 2-brass 6pdr
 2-iron  6pdr
 2-iron  4pdr

The ship Amelia, in 1652

Willem van der Zaan commanded a ship variously called Amelia or Aemilia in 1652. The Amelia operated in the service of the Admiralty of Amsterdam. The Amelia is described in the document from the Wrangell Collection:

The ship Amelia, Capt. Willem van der Zaan

Length from stem to sternpost:  120ft
Beam:                            28ft
Hold:                            10-1/2ft
Height over hold:                 6-1/2ft

28 guns:
 4 brass      12 lbs
14 gotelingen  8 lbs
 4 brass       6 lbs
 4 gotelingen  6 lbs
 2 drakes      4 lbs

Crew: 90 men

More thoughts on the Rotterdam ship Schiedam

Carl Stapel pointed out that Dirck Juynbol was appointed to command the Rotterdam ship Schiedam in early 1652, when Marinus Juynbol was removed from command. From the 26 February 1652 document from the Admiralty of Rotterdam (as it calls itself there, rather than the Admiralty of the Maze), we know that the dimensions for the Schiedam in Maas feet of 308mm were 106ft x 25ft x 10ft. These approximately translate to the same dimensions as the Gorinchem in Amsterdam feet: 116ft x 27ft x 11ft. We know from such lists as Hendrick de Raedt's pamphlet that Dirck Juynbol's ship carried 30 guns and had a crew of 131 men. This is all but identical to the armament and crew for Gorinchem (30 guns and a crew of 130 men). Why would Dirck Juynbol not have commanded the Schiedam through the rest of 1652 until the ship was lost at the Battle of Dungeness on 10 December 1652?

Ron van Maanen's list of ships

We really would like to know Ron van Maanen's sources so we can find the documents that he saw. The reason is that Ron usually omitted gun lists that I know were on certain documents (because I have copies of them). His list is a really tremendous work, and is extremely helpful. I find, though, that he makes some mistakes about ships, probably based on Vreudenhil's list. We also have information that he had not seen, mostly from the Wrangell Collection document and from S. Hart's papers from the Gemeentearchief Amsterdam. He also omits ships, such as that which seems to have been named Scheletje (24 guns and a crew of 70 men). His list seems to confirm that there were ships hired by the Directors in 1652 that were not part of the fifty funded by the Extraordinarie Equipage (50 hired by the Directors and 100 ships hired by the admiralties)

The Jaarveld, wrecked in January 1653

The ship Jaarsveld was taken to the Mediterranean Sea by Joris van Cats, as his flagship. After he was removed the Jaarsveld became the flagship of Johan van Galen. The Jaarsveld fought in the Battle of Monte Christo on 27 August 1652 and continued in service until the ship ran onto an uncharted rock off Livorno. Ron van Maanen has the dimensions of the ship:

The ship Jaarsveld
built for the Admiralty of Amsterdam in 1651

Length from stem to sternpost:  130ft
Beam:                            32ft
Hold:                            13ft
Height over hold:                 7ft

44 guns

Crew: 150 men

The Rotterdam ship Schiedam

From the list of Rotterdam ships from 26 February 1652, we know the dimensions in Maas feet of 308mm of the ship Schiedam (26 guns). Ron van Maanen includes that ship in his list, and says that the ship was lost in action. He has a note for which I do not have the key, at least for now.

A candidate for Ruth Jacobsz Buys' ship from Ron van Maanen's document

After study of Ron van Maanen's document, one candidate for Ruth Jacobsz Buys' ship is suggested: the Sint Pieter of 24 to 28 guns and a crew of from 100 to 122 men. Hendrick de Raedt's pamphlet gives the ship 26 guns and a crew of 105 men.

The hired ship Susanna

The ship Susanna was hired by the Admiralty of Amsterdam for service in the Mediterranean Sea in the First Anglo-Dutch War. I could not find the dimensions on the page from the papers of S. Hart from the Gemeentearchief, which does not mean that they are not there. What makes these documents hard to read, besides the sloppy writing, is that there is a lot of "bleed-through" from the other side of the page, as they were written with ink, used in liberal amounts. I had to consult one of the documents from Ron van Maanen that has the length, beam, and height above the hold. The captain and crew size are from the First Dutch War, Vol.IV. These are the details:

The ship Susanna, Capt. Pieter Jansz de Vries

Length from stem to sternpost:  133ft
Beam:                            29-1/2ft
Hold:                            unknown
Height above hold:                6-1/4ft

Guns:
 4-12pdr
10-8pdr
 6-6pdr
 6-4pdr
 2-3pdr
 2-steenstukken

Crew:  100 men

The hired ship Venetia

One of the pages in the papers of S. Hart, from the Gemeentearchief Amsterdam tells about the hired ship Venetia. The Venetia served in the Mediterranean Sea and was commanded by Jacob Schellinger. These are the details:

The ship Venetia, Capt. Jacob Schellinger

Length from stem to sternpost:  130ft
Beam:                            28ft
Hold:                             unknown
Height over hold:                 6-1/4ft

28 guns:
10-12pdr
14-6pdr
4-3pdr

17th Century Naval Wargaming is back

Thankfully, after I put in a support request with Blogger, they got 17th Century Naval Wargaming back so that it is visible.

A spurt of new information

I am experiencing one of the spurts of information that periodically happen. The wild thing is that more is on the way, in the form of the letters and journals of Witte de With, from Sweden. Typically, it can take several years to really digest the new information. One of my goals is to compile a complete list of Dutch warships used in the First Anglo-Dutch War, including dimensions, with the "height above hold", and lists of guns carried. It is likely that project cannot be totally completed, at least until someone perfects a timemachine (at least some of the information may not exist anymore).

A hired ship named Engel Gabriel

In the notes of S. Hart, from the Gemeentearchief Amsterdam, there is a ship mentioned named Engel Gabriel, with an inventory. The data I can read is as follows:

Length from stem to sternpost:  136ft
Beam:                            29ft-6in

36 guns:
18-12pdr
 2-8pdr
12-6pdr
 4-4pdr

This is a ship hired in 1652, in Amsterdam. On what might be the second page, it is signed by Isaac Sweers on 12 August 1652.

Abraham van der Hulst's ship in 1652

I may have already said this, but my current estimate is that Abraham van der Hulst probably commanded the ship Achilles, built in 1644, in 1652. This ship is number 2 in Vreugdenhil's list. After I found out that Dirck Schey commanded the ship that was number 1 in Vreugdenhil's list, I was looking at possibilities for a regular warship that was not otherwise seen, and this ship is really the only possibility of ships that we know about. The only thing we know about the Achilles of 1644 is that the length of the ship was 120ft. According to the lists we have, Abraham van der Hulst's ship carried 26 guns in June to August 1652 and had a crew of 100 men. Sources:

1. Pieter Casteleyn, Hollandsche Mercurius, 1652
2. Hendrik de Raedt, Lyste van de schepen van Oorloge onder het beleyt Admirael Marten Harpersz. Tromp, 1652
3. A. Vreugdenhil, Ships of the United Netherlands 1648-1702, 1938

Is this ship model supposed to be the Gouda that served in the First Anglo-Dutch War?

One ship included the Wrangell Collection list of ships hired by the Admiralty of Amsterdam in 1652 is the Gouda. Just the inclusion of the Gouda in this list is controversial, because the Gouda seems to have been built as a warship. I noticed a picture of a Pyro ship model from the past of a Dutch warship named Gouda:

I wondered if this was supposed to be a model of the Gouda that is in this list and which fought in the First Anglo-Dutch War. The ship was built about 1636 and was commanded by Jan Egbertsz Ooms. The Gouda was lost in the storm in early November 1653, along with many other ships from Witte de With's fleet. This is the data from the list:

the Ship Gouda, Capt. Ooms

Length from stem to sternpost:  116ft
Beam:                            29ft
Hold:                            11-1/4ft
Height between decks:             6ft-7in

28 guns:
 4 brass            12 lbs
12 gotelingen        8 lbs
 4 brass             6 lbs
 6 gotelingen        6 lbs
 2 brass chambered   4 lbs

Crew:  90 men

So how did Dutch ships carry their guns?

I do not have information for 1652 and 1653 about how Dutch ships carried their guns. Most Dutch ships were apparently two deckers, although the waist was not armed. I can only speculate, although I can at least make educated guesses.

For example, Hendrick Kroeger's ship 1652, up until 22 July, was the Marcus Curtius. The Marcus Curtius carried 6-iron 8pdr, 8-iron 6pdr, 4-iron 4pdr, probably 4-iron 3pdr, and 2-iron 2pdr. Presumably, the lower tier consisted of 6-8pdr, 8-6pdr, and 4-4pdr, for a total of 18 guns. That would mean 9 guns on a side. I would then guess that 4-3pdr were carried on the quarterdeck and 2-2pdr on the forecastle. The 2pdr could also have been on the poop. A different plan would have been used for Albert Claesz de Graeff's ship, the Hollandia.

The Hollandia was armed with 4-brass 12pdr, 14-iron 12pdr, 14-iron 6pdr, and 2-iron 4pdr. I would hazard a guess that all the 12pdrs were on the lower tier, all the 6pdrs were on the upper tier, with the waist unarmed, and the 2-4pdr were on the poop (or whatever level that would be, one deck higher).

Sources:

1. list of Amsterdam ships hired in 1652, from the Wrangell Collection at the Riksarkivet, in Stockholm, Sweden

English Naval Officer: George Delavall

George Delavall served in the English and British navies from the very late 17th Century until the 1720's. He was appointed Captain on 28 October 1695. He was operating in the Mediterranean Sea with John Munden in the 1698-1699 timeframe, when George Delavall commanded the Conventy (42 guns). He fought in the Battle of Velez Malaga on 13 August 1704 (old style). He commanded the Tilbury (50 guns) in the battle. He was a member of parliament from 1715 for West Looe. He was appointed Rear-Admiral of the Blue on 28 March 1718. He fought in the Battle of Cape Passaro on 11 August 1718 (old style). He flew his flag on the Dorsetshire (80 guns) with John Furzer as his flag captain. With Thomas Kempthorne, in the Royal Oak (70 guns), he chased two ships, but did not catch them. He had taken the Spanish Isabela (60 guns). He was appointed as Rear-Admiral of the Red on 10 March 1719. He was promoted to Vice-Admiral of the White on 16 February 1723. He died on 22 June 1723. Sources:

1. William Laird Clowes, The Royal Navy: A History from the Earliest Times to the Present, Vol.II, 1898
2. William Laird Clowes, The Royal Navy: A History from the Earliest Times to the Present, Vol.III, 1898
3. David Syrett, R. L. DiNardo, The Commissioned Sea Officers of the Royal Navy 1660-1815, 1994

Isaak Sweers' ship, the Engel Gabriel (36 guns)

The document from the Wrangell Collection has the details of Isaak Sweers' ship Engel Gabriel. This was a large, hired ship. He served in Michiel De Ruyter's fleet in the summer of 1652 and probably fought in the Battle of Dungeness, on 10 December 1652. His ship was sunk by gunfire on the first day of the Three Days Battle on 28 February 1652. These are the details of the ship:

The ship the Engel Gabriel, Capt. Sweers

Length from stem to sternpost:  130ft
Beam:                            30ft
Hold:                            13-1/2ft
Height between decks:             6-1/2ft

36 guns:
18 gotelingen   12 lbs
10 gotelingen    8 lbs
 4 gotelingen    6 lbs
 4 gotelingen    4 lbs

Crew:  120 men

The Amsterdam Directors' ship Walvisch

Carl Stapel identified a document that gave the dimensions and armament of the Amsterdam Directors' ship Walvisch. The Walvisch was commanded by Abraham Verleth and fought in the Battle of Scheveningen. In Vol.V of Schetsen uit de geschiedenis van ons zeewezen, Dr. Elias gives some information about the ship: Walvisch (30 guns and a crew of 110 men). After seeing the information that Carl found, I equate the Walvisch with an unnamed ship that appeared in a list of four new ships, simply referred to as "the first", "the second", "the third", and "the fourth". That document shows the ship as carrying 28 guns:

the ship Walvisch, kapitein Abraham Verleth
Length from stem to sternpost:  128ft
Beam:                            29ft
Hold:                            12-1/2ft
Height between decks:             7ft
28 guns:
10-12pdr
 8- 8pdr
 8- 6pdr
 2- 3pdr

Crew: 110 men

Cornelis Cornelisz de Groot

I had not remembered that there was a document which definitively says that Cornelis Cornelisz de Groot commanded the Amsterdam Directors' ship Samson (Sampson). I had thought that it just said "Cornelis Cornelisz", but it adds "groot" at the end. The copy is bad, so it is a good thing that I have another page with the Samson's specifications. I am most familiar with Cornelis Cornelisz de Groot from his part in talking Witte de With out of attacking Scarborough, after sailing there in April 1653, on a raid. This is the information about the Samson:

The ship, the Samson
kapitein Cornelis Cornelisz de Groot

Length from stem to sternpost:  119ft
Beam:                            28 or 28-1/4ft
Hold:                            13ft
Height between decks:             6-1/4 or 6-1/2ft

28 guns:
12-12pdr
 6- 8pdr (or 8-8pdr)
 8- 6pdr (or 6-6pdr)
 2- 3pdr

Crew:  110 men

It is not unusual that the information is not consistent across documents. The best document lacks gun information. There may be another document, and I probably need to check my original copy to see if I can read more.

Do we actually know information about the Rotterdam Directors' ship Sint Pieter?

I could not account for a ship named Sint Pieter that appeared in documents from 1653, along with ships known to have been hired by the Amsterdam Directors. On a page that says something about ships in the Sound (Orisondt), there is a ship named Sint Pieter at the bottom of the page. The captain's name is blank, unlike the other ships. We do have the specifications for the ship:

Sint Pieter

Length from stem to sternpost:  123ft
Beam:                            28ft-7in
Hold:                            12-1/2ft
Height between decks:             6-1/2ft

28 guns:
10-12pdr
 8-8pdr
 8-6pdr
 2-3pdr

The page was copied poorly, so we cannot read the crew size, which must be on the original, bound page. Given the heading on the page, perhaps the list could include a non-Amsterdam vessel. Otherwise, there is a mystery ship named Sint Pieter hired by the Amsterdam Directors (which is always a slight possibility).

How much we know about the Zeeland jacht Dordrecht

I had not remembered how much information there is about the Zeeland jacht Dordrecht. The two sources are the Staet van Oorlog te Water for the year 1654 and two appendices to Vol.I of Geschiedenis van het Nederlandsche Zeewezen:

the jacht Dordrecht
Length:  85ft
Beam:    21ft (est)
Hold:     9.5ft (est)
17 guns:
 4  12pdr
 7   6pdr
 6   3pdr

Crew:    50 men

Similar jachts in 1666 had dimensions of 86ft x 22ft x 9.75ft

Abraham van der Hulst's ship in 1652

I have reached the conclusion that Abraham van der Hulst's ship during the summer of 1652 must have been a States' ship, not a hired ship. That is what Hendrick de Raedt's pamphlet and the Hollandsche Mercurius list indicate. I realized that I had forgotten that since we know that Dirck Schey commanded the ship Achilles listed as number 1 in Vreugdenhil's list, then ship number 2, also named Achilles, is not known to have been commanded by anyone in 1652 (or any other date). Right now, the Achilles of 1644 seems like the best candidate for being the ship commanded by Abraham van der Hulst in 1652. That leaves us the further question as to who commanded the Achilles from late 1652, or at least what happened to the ship. Sources:

1. Pieter Casteleyn, Hollandsche Mercurius, 1652
2. Hendrik de Raedt, Lyste van de schepen van Oorloge onder het beleyt Admirael Marten Harpersz. Tromp, 1652
3. A. Vreugdenhil, Ships of the United Netherlands 1648-1702, 1938

The hired ship Catharina

The ship Catharina (apparently called Juffrouw Catharina by Dr. Elias in Schetsen uit de Geschiedenis van ons Zeewezen) was commanded by Dirck Bogaart. The Catharina was apparently hired on 4 June 1652 and was taken by the English in the Fishery Protection Squadron on 22 July 1652. The ship was later seen by a Dutch warship in a Norwegian port, flying English colours. This the information about the Catharina from the Wrangell Collection document:

The ship, the Catharina, Capt. Bogaart (called Bogard in the list)
Length from stem to sternpost:  116ft
Beam:                            25ft
Hold:                            11-1/2ft
Height between decks:             6-1/2ft
24 guns:
6 gotelingen       8 lbs
8 gotelingen       6 lbs
4 gotelingen       4 lbs
4 gotelingen       3 lbs
2 brass bases      3 lbs

Crew:  70 men

The 24-gun hired ship Keijser

The 24-gun hired ship Keijser (Keyser) was commanded by Jan ter Stegen. The ship was eventually paid off and Jan ter Stegen took over command of the Aemilia after Willem van der Zaan was moved to the Campen, to replace his dead brother about March 1653. The Keijser was lightly armed, but was well-armed enough to actually serve in the fleet during the summer of 1652. The Keijser was with Tromp's fleet on the voyage to the Shetlands in July to August 1652, when the fleet was dispersed by a severe storm. Such far north latitude severe storms were a feature fo the mini-Ice Age that lasted until the early 1700's. The storm that destroyed half of the Spanish Armada is another example. The document from the Wrangell Collection supplies the specifications for the Keijer:

The ship, the Keijer, Capt. ter Stegen
Length from stem to sternpost:  122ft
Beam:                            25ft
Hold:                            11-1/2ft
Height between decks:             6ft
24 guns:
 6 gotelingen   8 lbs
 8 gotelingen   6 lbs
 8 gotelingen   4 lbs
 2 gotelingen   2 lbs

Crew:  70 men (later, as many as 80 men)

Just to confuse matters more: Hendrick de Raedt's list

To further confuse the picture, Hendrick de Raedt's list calls the following Amsterdam warships States' ships:

Ship     Commander            Guns Crew
a ship   Abraham van der Hulst  26 100
Star     Jacob Paulusz Cort     28  95
Campen   Joris van der Zaan     38 130

Two of these appaer in the document from the Wrangel Collection, and are said to be hired for a specified cost. I would have guessed that Abraham van der Hulst's ship was hired, as there seem to be no States' ship that would have been available for him to command.

Albert de Graeff's ship Hollandia

Albert de Graeff's ship Hollandia appears in the list of ships in Hendrick de Raedt's pamphlet as being in Witte de With's squadron in August 1652. That ship is also included in the list of ships hired in 1652 from the Wrangel Collection. This is the information from that list:

The ship Hollandia, Capt. de Graeff
Length from stem to sternpost: 130ft
Beam:                           29ft
Hold:                           13ft
Height between decks:            6-1/2ft
32 guns (actually, 34 guns):
 4 brass guns        12 lbs
14 iron gotelingen   12 lbs
14 iron gotelingen    6 lbs
 2 iron gotelingen    4 lbs

Crew:  90 men

The fireship Graaf Sonderlandt

The document that Jan Glete sent me answers one question that has persisted since before Vreugdenhil made his list. The fireship Graaf Sonderlandt was hired by the Admiralty of Amsterdam in 1652. We had not known which admiralty had hired the ship, previously. We had known that the Graaf Sonderlandt was commanded by Hendrick Janszoon, and this document confirms that information. It turns out that we know that the Graaf Sonderlandt had a crew of 18 men, as well.

Dirck Schey's ship, the Achilles (or Achillis)

What the document that Jan Glete sent me says about Dirck Schey's ship, the Achilles (or Achillis, the document calls the ship), is both surprising and explains what had been a mystery. The surprise is that it is obvious that his ship is what Vreugdenhil lists as number 1 on his list. The revelation,however, explains what happened to that ship. To make matters worse, Dirck Scheij's ship was hired in 1652 for the price of f2,000, and was numbered among the Hundred Ships hired in 1652 as part of the Extraordinary Equipage. It doesn't explain number 2 on the list, also named Achilles, which was said to have been completed in 1644. Number 2 is the ship that I had assumed was that commanded by Dirck Schey (or Scheij). Now, that ship is hard to explain. This is the information from the document sent to me by Jan Glete:

The ship Achillis, Capt. Scheij

Length from stem to sternpost:  131ft
Beam:                            29ft
Hold:                            13ft
Height between decks:             7ft-7in
28 guns:
 4 iron gotelingen      12lbs
12 iron gotelingen       8lbs
 8 iron gotelingen       4lbs
 2 iron gotelingen       2lbs

Crew: 90 men

Hillebrandt Jeroenszoon's ship, the Hollandsche Tuin

Hillebrandt Jeroenszoon commanded the small, hired ship on 25 June 1652 and remained in service until about March 1653, when the ship was lying in the Texel, paid off. In August 1652, he was on a convoy to Muscovy. In September, his ship was lying in the Schooneveld with Witte de With's fleet and presumable fought in the Battle of the Kentish Knock. In December, he was assigned to a convoy that was to separate from the fleet and head for the French channel ports. This is the data for the ship:

The ship Hollandsche Tuin, Captain Hillbrandt Jeroenssen

Length from stem to sternpost:   116ft
Beam:                             26ft
Hold:                             11-1/2ft
Height between decks:              6ft

24 guns:
6 gotelingen       8lbs
8 gotelingen       6lbs
4 gotelingen       4lbs
2 gotelingen       3lbs
4 gotelingen       2lbs

Crew: 70 men

I use my Zeven Provincien mousepad at work

I currently use my Zeven Provinciën mousepad at work.

I want to make a mousepad of my favorite Brederode drawing, and switch to that one:

There already are some Brederode options, ranging from the photoart piece to the two different versions of the painting. The Zeven Provinciën mousepad is currently available at my CafePress.com store, along with other products, including the mousepads based on the other Brederode artwork.

The large ship Drie Coningen hired in 1652

The large ship Drie Coningen was hired in 1652. The ship was initially commanded by Lucas Albertszoon (or Albertssen). The Drie Coningen fought in the Battle of Plymouth and the Battle of the Kentish Knock. It appears that Lucas Albertszoon was removed from command for his performance at the Kentish Knock. A document, that I date about mid-March 1653, that is published in The First Dutch War, Vol.IV, still shows Lucas Albertszoon as captain. A name appearing in that document does not mean much, as it still shows Jacob Huyrluyt as captain of the Zeelandia, when his lieutenant, Nicolaes Marrevelt was in command. This is the data from the document that Jan Glete sent me from the Wrangel Collection in the Swedish archives:

The ship, the Drie Coningen, Capta. Lucas Aelbrechtsz.

Length from stem to sternpost:   145ft
Beam:                             30ft
Hold:                             14-1/2ft
Height between decks:              6-3/4ft

Armed with 24 guns
and of the State: 12 guns

36 guns:
16 gotelingen         12lbs
10 gotelingen          8lbs
 6 gotelingen          6lbs
 4 gotelingen          4lbs

Crew: 120 men

A different sort of 24 gun ship: the Marcus Curtius

The Marcus Curtius represents a different sort of 24 gun ship than some. The shp is longer, but still carries a light armament. The ship was commanded by Hendrick Kroeger, and was taken by the English on 22 July 1652, while with the Fishery Protection Squadron. This is the data from the document sent to me by Jan Glete:

The ship Marcus Curtius, Capt. Kroeger

Length from stem to sternpost:   120ft
Beam:                             25ft
Hold:                             11ft
Height between decks:              5-1/2ft

24 guns:
6 iron gotelingen      8 lbs
8 iron gotelingen      6 lbs
4 iron gotelingen      4 lbs
4 iron gotelingen      3 lbs (?)
2 iron gotelingen      2 lbs

Crew:  70 men

The low height between decks is striking. The ship also has a length-to-beam ratio of 4.8, which is pretty large.

How do these dimensions for the Edam compare to those measured by the English?

The dimensions for the Edam in the documents that I received from Jan Glete give a greater length than the traditional dimensions. This information gives a 124ft length in Amsterdam feet, while the usual length given is 120ft. The measured length on the keel, in English feet, is 86ft. The ratio between this length and the English length is 1.44, about. The ratio between 120ft and 86ft is about 1.39. This conversion ratio is a factor that includes the rake and the difference between the English foot of about 305mm and the Amsterdam foot of 283mm. Even the 1.39 is large, as the same ratio of for the captured Friesland ship Groningen is about 1.28. The 1.44 figure is even more extreme. I imagine that the 124ft length is incorrect, although it is not impossible that it is correct and the "traditional" length of 120ft is wrong. Published Sources:

1. H.A. van Foreest and R.E.J. Weber, De Vierdaagse Zeeslag 11-14 Juni 1666, 1984

Simon van der Aeck's ship, the Amsterdam

Another ship listed in the papers that I received from Jan Glete is the ship Amsterdam, commanded in 1652, at least, by Simon van der Aeck. The Amsterdam fought in the Battle of Plymouth in August and probably was at the Battle of the Kentish Knock on 8 October 1652. The ship was still in service in March, and probably took part in the Battle of Dungeness and the Three Days Battle from 28 February until 2 March 1653. These are the particulars:

The ship Amsterdam, kapitein Sijmon van der Aeck

Length from stem to sternpost:  130ft
Beam:                            29ft
Hold:                            13ft

30 guns:

10 gotelingen of 12 lbs
 8 gotelingen of  8 lbs
 8 gotelingen of  6 lbs
 4 gotelingen of  3 lbs